Cpt. Alexander Hamilton (and some TJ, too!)

From what Lora has said, there’ve been plenty of debates and arguments and whatnot over this between readers of The Dreamer already, but as they are my favorite and least-favorite founding fathers, respectively, I’d like to give a board over to Jefferson and Hamilton, though only the latter actually appears (so far!) in the comic…

I, for one (though I’m biased, and I’ll admit it) found Lora’s depiction of “Captain Fancy Pants” brief but quite accurate. He was a proud, almost haughty man anyway, but was especially so when you consider that he was born out of wedlock, one of the greatest shames of his day. From what I’ve read, he considered himself entitled by being Washington’s aide-de-camp, and later--though not in this time period--got worse (as Sec. of the Treasury, etc.) Now, I’m sure Hamilton had his good qualities and it’s undeniable that he was essential in the development of the American economy.

But--again, my bias is speaking here--Jefferson, whatever else his faults were (and he certainly had them, namely, as everyone feels compelled to point out, his ownership of slaves) could not have been called “prideful.” From what I’ve read of him, certainly at this time (1776), he was a fairly humble, even shy man. He was dedicated to his family and very much preferred privacy at home to public life.

Especially since their political ideals were so different, it’s easy to see why the two didn’t get along.

But--what is everyone else’s thoughts on Lora’s Hammy? (I believe she might be a TJ fan, but I can’t be certain. That picture of hers on dA at Monticello is compelling evidence, though!) Like him? Dislike him? Not enough “screen time” to decide?

We can be the intellectual Twi-hards... Team Jefferson instead of Team Edward...Team Hamilton instead of Team Jacob...

I like him. I think he's a real hoot.

I liked how Lora handled him, and loved everyone's reactions to him...but again, I think it's my historical bias speaking, as I'm not a big fan of the RL Hamilton.

In all honesty, none of us have any right to say who Alexander Hamilton was or what he wasn't like.
He's dead. And last time I checked, there was no time machine to go back in time and meet him.
So, really, while we can all have opinions about people, we can't really just put a stamp on people who are long dead.

Well…erm…I wasn’t exactly trying to stamp on him. And I don’t know how much “rights” come into it. Just because someone is dead doesn’t mean we can’t have opinions, especially if their personality and actions are fairly well-documented…not that I’m a Hamilton scholar or anything. Lora obviously has some background on the real figures in the comic which she uses to draw conclusions and make interpretations. Other people can do the same. Obviously none of us has any way of knowing with 100% certainty who he was, but I wouldn't swear to knowing exactly who my closest friends or family members are, either. Death does not make you a nonentity.

MagicCrafter wrote:Well…erm…I wasn’t exactly trying to stamp on him. And I don’t know how much “rights” come into it. Just because someone is dead doesn’t mean we can’t have opinions, especially if their personality and actions are fairly well-documented…not that I’m a Hamilton scholar or anything. Lora obviously has some background on the real figures in the comic which she uses to draw conclusions and make interpretations. Other people can do the same. Obviously none of us has any way of knowing with 100% certainty who he was, but I wouldn't swear to knowing exactly who my closest friends or family members are, either. Death does not make you a nonentity.

No, no, not that. There was an anon post that I deleted earlier that was flaming me.

Oh! xD In that case, you can totally disregard what I said. My bad!

MagicCrafter wrote:Oh! xD In that case, you can totally disregard what I said. My bad!

No, it's fine. :3

I see what you're saying about these two, and I understand where you're coming from. I, however, have a rather different view of Hamilton and Jefferson.

As for Hamilton, I really enjoy learning about him. He's a founding father that is so unpopular that we haven't forgotten that he had a personality. Yes, the personality that he had was rather prideful, but he also had an unusual, almost French styled sense of honor that I have to respect. (Even if he did deviate from it on many occasions.) Furthermore, he was incredibly smart, skilled, and ambitious, having to work for everything that he got in life.

Jefferson, on the other hand... well, I guess that I like him alright, and I acknowledge that he, too, was amazingly intelligent and a fantastic writer to boot...
...but...
I don't know, it just seems to me that he's everybody's favorite. Furthermore, most people that I know can't even say why he's their favorite, or credit him with things that he didn't actually do. And that bothers me. Further more, I did a little bit of research, and traced Jefferson's popularity to FDR's erecting of the Jefferson Memorial in 1939. Doing this, FDR painted Jefferson as a revolutionary figure of himself - which Jefferson was NOT, thank you very much. Yes, he was a fantastic person, and far more accomplished and intelligent then I'll ever be... but... it just really, really bothers me.

Furthermore, a lot of things that I love about Hamilton are... not-so present in Jefferson. Hamilton had to work mind-breakingly hard at a young age to get to where he did in life. Jefferson was an aristocrat who died in debt because of how much he loved his French wine. And yes... the slavery issue bothers me, too. I know you pointed it out as a somewhat weak complaint, but it does grate on me.... I'm a lot harder on him than most slaveholders in the era because he acknowledged and spoke out against slavery... but loved his wine too much to save enough money to free his own slaves. (facepalm.) That... well, again, it bothers me!

Well... that about sums up my views, really. I think they were both human, with strengths and weaknesses, and I admire them both. (Yes, I DO admire Jefferson - a lot really!) However, the fact that so many people (though not anyone here, really) seem to love Jefferson as someone that he simply wasn't irritates me and... well, partially because of that, I have to like Hamilton better. So yeah, Team Hamilton, here. XD